General question about server's future

[HadELisK]

Hello there Skullcrusher staff,

 

I would like to know if you guys have any directions planned for the future? We are seeing how population is slowly declining sadly. We are doing everything in our hand to change that and keep players active (Horde guilds joined forces, Making sheets with active players and potential raids, and so on...) but it still doesn't work. Some players who leveled to 70 left server due to low level 70 content activity, some are already at the point where they got everything and only want to raid log (that also doesn't help activity, but it is understandable). We are giving everything we got to be able to make 25 man content happen, but sadly day by day it looks less likely to happen. Sadly I don't think PvP scene is ever going to be active as well. I have also heard that Alliance side struggles with same problems. 

Now, I would like to know if an option of Cross-Faction grouping is at all considerable? And if it is, when do you guys think it is the right time for that to happen? If not, are there any other plans you guys have to at least make current population not deteriorate, or in better case to somehow bring in new people? I think that would help both Factions to be able to keep their player base more active, especially on off hours and potentially make 25man content possible?

This is not a rant (even though it might look like one), just a concern we are having right now.

Thanks for the read, and we would be happy to get some answers.

Greetings,
Htest

Edited September 10 by HadELisK

[Fanadin]

Hello,

There will not be cross-faction.

New players still sign up daily. Retaining players is the key, of course some will quit for their own personal reasons. It's partly the responsibility of the player base to help retain players by arranging groups, raids, helping each other,  or other activities, etc. 

Other than that, I see it being possible to do 25 man raids based on recent Karazhan activity and the amount of people still leveling. This is my honest opinion at this point.

Stick with it and persevere, it's a grind, which is exactly how the game is intended to be. 

[HadELisK]

Hello Fanadin, 

While I partly get you decision to move away from cross-faction completely.

I'm not sure that you completely understand what the real situation online is. Recent Karazhan activity that you mentioned is trivial as you don't understand the amount of energy some of us put for that to happen in the first place, It sadly came to the point where we need to drag people over DMs and whatnot to be able to do even dungeons. Language barriers are also a problem that we have to deal with regularly. I don't see that working out for much longer as some of us that try to make things active and going are just getting burned out. 

While I agree that there are still some people leveling, I'm afraid that they might face reality once they reach 70, of not even be able to complete their reps or attunements. As we can already see that it's hard now.

Lastly while I agree that game is designed to be hard and grindy.

P.S. I'm not trying to be a dick or to downgrade your work (we all like what you did here and how this project was planed), also this is not my sentiment, I'm just trying to be people's voice and share to you experiences we are dealing with.

Thanks again.
Yours,
Htest

[Fanadin]

I do have some new ideas that may help, I am unsure of them as of right now but will hopefully have something more definitive hopefully soon. 

Thank you. 

[Havok]

One of the reasons that keeps me playing here is : *There will not be cross-faction.*

[Trekib]

On 16/9/2024 at 6:35 AM, Havok said:

One of the reasons that keeps me playing here is : *There will not be cross-faction.*

x2

[Carlosgr]

It seems to me that <On a Journey> is the only guild still raiding Kara, at least we are in the Alliance side.

In terms of numbers, we almost have enough to do 25 man raids. But as we all know, numbers isn't all you need. You also need the right roles, the right gear and most importantly, the right schedule. Which means in order to make regular 25 man raiding possible on a weekly basis you need to have at the very least 30 raiders that can show up regularly at the same time. The extra five account for spec and role incompatibility as well as eventual absences.

We barely have 30 raiders, we struggle to fill 2 weekly Kara, often going with no one on bench.  And this is with our current active people, sometimes people quit, and things get even harder.

There is no guarantee that the people leveling will stay and have availability to raid. We hope they do, but that's as far as we can go, hope.

I am a big believer in "build it and they will come". We're building it, and trying to keep it going.

[Genevara]

It all comes down to one thing. If you want new people to stay and the old people to not quit, you need to play the game outside of raiding. And this is not happening, but you will not understand that and keep on raidlogging.

So either be online more to have hcs happening wih your mains or play alts, so the occcasional new player sees a number in double digits in /who and has some players in their level range.

[Dalzedur]

Yeah, it's not enough to be able to raid at max level at a regular basis. New players aren't going to keep playing if all they see is max level people waiting for them to get to max level and raid ready as well - or if they don't see them at all since they are raid logged. Also, if they get borderline zero help from people around their own level organically during the leveling phase.

Alts are important to facilitate new players sticking around. 'Ask if you need anything' is also something that doesn't really work as well as one would expect it to work, as it's basically a personality trait/extraversion check, and if the player is looking to challenge themselves, then having a max level player running content for them doesn't really scratch that itch.

As backwards as it may seem, you, everyone of you, is responsible for other players feeling like staying around. You can prioritize your own enjoyment/progress/whatnot and shirk that responsibility that ideally no one should bear, sure, but are you going to have a healthy server when that becomes increasingly the dominant mindset? Doesn't sound like it is very healthy right now, judging by the other replies.

(Also, been personally absent due to RL circumstances for dunno how long already, not mad at anyone in-game or outside it. No idea what the server looks like right now, maybe there are more alts around now even.)

[HadELisK]

11 hours ago, Carlosgr said:

It seems to me that <On a Journey> is the only guild still raiding Kara, at least we are in the Alliance side.

In terms of numbers, we almost have enough to do 25 man raids. But as we all know, numbers isn't all you need. You also need the right roles, the right gear and most importantly, the right schedule. Which means in order to make regular 25 man raiding possible on a weekly basis you need to have at the very least 30 raiders that can show up regularly at the same time. The extra five account for spec and role incompatibility as well as eventual absences.

We barely have 30 raiders, we struggle to fill 2 weekly Kara, often going with no one on bench.  And this is with our current active people, sometimes people quit, and things get even harder.

There is no guarantee that the people leveling will stay and have availability to raid. We hope they do, but that's as far as we can go, hope.

I am a big believer in "build it and they will come". We're building it, and trying to keep it going.

Yeah on Horde side there is only <Red Dawn> still left, and we struggle making 2 Karazhan groups that could clear full as well.

In terms of number we have 40+ level 70s but sadly half (about 20ish) already quit to multiple reasons: be it huge language barrier, time zones barrier, player to player drama, finding it hard to play, low population or just going for servers where it's "easy game". As you said I'm optimistic and I hope new players stick, however last 7-10 days I saw almost no fresh players joining Horde side or Guild in general. 
Thing that is most annoying is that for every fresh 70 level up player we lose already existing 70 player. Some are just gone without even saying a word, some are expressing desire to leave due to low activity on server in general. There is 5-10 of us trying to be there at any time of the day to help newcomers or to be able to do any level 70 content with level 70 players. But it's just discouraging when you put your own time into helping someone/gearing someone/attuning someone just for them to quit the next day.

I don't know how this is getting better at this point, but as you said we have only hope left and time to put in game. 

Some solution that I see might help are:
1. What I would like to happen is for devs to lift 1 simultaneous account usage and make it 2 (at this state of server there is literally no downside to this), and this would help us level/gear alts and improve playability in general. 
2. What I would also like to happen is for devs to lift ban of account sharing, as I know multiple players that would like to come and play, but they just don't enjoy 1x or don't have time to do so (especially now with such low server activity). I see this would help to bring back some players as well bring some new players on accounts of players that left or even our own alts that might be used for 10/25 man raids as well as dungeons. 

I would like to Hear Fanadin or Gummy opinion/standpoint about 2 above things that I mentioned might help us as player base that Is left and active?

This is my 2 cents. Thanks for hearing me out!

Edited September 24 by HadELisK

[Carlosgr]

10 hours ago, Genevara said:

It all comes down to one thing. If you want new people to stay and the old people to not quit, you need to play the game outside of raiding. And this is not happening, but you will not understand that and keep on raidlogging.

So either be online more to have hcs happening wih your mains or play alts, so the occcasional new player sees a number in double digits in /who and has some players in their level range.

Every time I loggon in the middle of the day there are 10+ people playing, and I join them, or I start my own groups. Yesterday morning I rushed a couple of players through ZF for them to complete their quests, and I try to be there.

I don't like alts, never have, never will. I always only play one character unless the  server ix x5 and I can get an alto to max in 7 days or something. We have players and officers literally on all day. Armouranth tanks any dungeons to anyone all day, including low level dungeons.

Some of the responsibility of sticking around and playing is on the people playing. Max level players cannot compensate for that. In fact when we try too hard and spend all of our time leveling with people, then helping them gear and attune, they leave and we burn out.

[Trekib]

Would opening donations to invest more heavily into ads be ever a choice? We do really need an injection of new players to be able to work with and maintain them.

[trumen]

Advertising would help immensely. I see ascension wow ads on youtube daily. 

 

[trumen]

You could also try contacting metagoblin on youtube, invite him to play and make a video on the server.

 

[Dalzedur]

5 hours ago, Carlosgr said:

In fact when we try too hard and spend all of our time leveling with people, then helping them gear and attune, they leave and we burn out.

100%

If they feel like their own efforts aren't worth anything, they don't become invested. If you are handed for free (although in WoW this does not fully apply due to lvl requirements in gear) better items than you can make through your efforts, you miss entirely on 1) the feel of having earned it as you haven't really put any effort in. 2) being able to replace that one with a better option through your own efforts, effectively making a lot of item drops and quest rewards just junk for the next... 5 levels?

There are of course exceptions. If you see a solo warrior struggling with a bad weapon for their level, they're going to have a horrible time, and they're the one kind of charity that I fully condone spoiling with a good weapon/shield that they haven't yet earned. With them, it is something of an investment towards them possibly tanking stuff for later on.

I've always been anti-boosting on a principal level. It is boring to have a super hero run you through content, when the only danger of dying is through you, the boostee, actively messing something up on purpose. I often hear the counter argument that running the same old content is even more boring, and boosting is faster, and gets you to the more interesting content faster. Depends on the person, admittedly. I've found running 'same old' dungeon content with less than a full group to make it feel like fresh and exciting again. I have some good memories of running 3man Gnomer, 2man RFD etc and clearing them despite the increased difficulty, and getting to enjoy the blue rewards that are still relevant as my character hasn't yet outleveled them.

The main carrying force of the playing experience is to be able to observe making progress, not just in xp and levels, but in gearing also. But mainly constantly in small bites, where you know that 10 minutes from now, there's an upgrade. That next level, you unlock a quest that, while it has enemies 5 levels higher than you, would reward you with an XYZ.

I don't rank high on socializer and killer scores, but lean more towards explorer / achiever scores, so I can't really say much about pvp incentives (other than that no one likes when max lvl player keeps ganking them in the leveling phase).

[Fanadin]

5 hours ago, Trekib said:

Would opening donations to invest more heavily into ads be ever a choice? We do really need an injection of new players to be able to work with and maintain them.

Thousands of dollars have been spent on advertising. We still invest money into advertising as well. 

Also, anyone can promote our server, whether they invest any money or not, through multiple means, such as Google ads, Youtube, Reddit, etc. 

1 hour ago, trumen said:

You could also try contacting metagoblin on youtube, invite him to play and make a video on the server.

If someone has a relationship with him, by all means, he is welcome just like anyone else. 

[Keann]

!!!Beware of the wall of text with my bad English!!!

The idea of making a server without addons is a great idea that brings something new to the world of the old expansion.

Over the last 10 years, I've probably seen a lot of tbc projects that tried to stick to x1 ratings , without donations for game items, etc. And each time, sooner or later, this led to fading away without even reaching isle of queldanas.

No matter what anyone says about lvling x1 and old dungeons with 2-3 people, this completely discourages most people from starting to play here.The majority of players cannot afford to level up a character for 2-4 hours a day for a couple of months only to see that at level 70 he has nowhere to go and no one to go with.

Also the idea of helping 24/7 all newplayers with attunements and millions of normals does not lead to anything good, because 90% of them simply leave the server after the first karazhan or even earlier for many reasons... and you just burn out when this continues for a month or more.

 

In my opinion it would be great to move away from the fullblizzlike concept. Focus on the fact that the server is without addons, add some incentives for faster leveling for people up to level 58

 

 

 

[Genevara]

2 hours ago, Keann said:

!!!Beware of the wall of text with my bad English!!!

The idea of making a server without addons is a great idea that brings something new to the world of the old expansion.

Over the last 10 years, I've probably seen a lot of tbc projects that tried to stick to x1 ratings , without donations for game items, etc. And each time, sooner or later, this led to fading away without even reaching isle of queldanas.

No matter what anyone says about lvling x1 and old dungeons with 2-3 people, this completely discourages most people from starting to play here.The majority of players cannot afford to level up a character for 2-4 hours a day for a couple of months only to see that at level 70 he has nowhere to go and no one to go with.

Also the idea of helping 24/7 all newplayers with attunements and millions of normals does not lead to anything good, because 90% of them simply leave the server after the first karazhan or even earlier for many reasons... and you just burn out when this continues for a month or more.

 

In my opinion it would be great to move away from the fullblizzlike concept. Focus on the fact that the server is without addons, add some incentives for faster leveling for people up to level 58

 

 

 

This would be the complete opposite of what the server wanted to be. A bliizzlike experience without being rushed and where you have to invest into your character. And to me that is the most fun in a game. Not the raiding.

You basically suggest some kind of funserver with highly increased leveling speed, no attunements, no repuation requirements for heroics.

All this would do is bring in new players for a short period of time ("tourists") because not feeling attached to their character.

It also will not fill the zones with players either cause you rush trough, cant finish zones, get no gold to train skills.

And in the end the result will be even faster raidlogging with more alts and many throwaway chars.

Also the time argument doesn't work. TBC back then had a very high population, just the atttiude of the people was different. Nothing will bring it back sadly. No event, no boost. If people only want to raid and not play the game you can't change that. This "The game starts at max level" attitude didn't exist for the majority and i really hoped that we had enough people here without it.

[Olivine]

tbc 1x no addons/fov fix just isnt as marketable as it seems

personally i stopped playing because the larger alliance guild merged into the smaller one and no poll regarding the merge was made

[Havok]

[Keann]

9 hours ago, Genevara said:

You basically suggest some kind of funserver with highly increased leveling speed, no attunements, no repuation requirements for heroics.

I meant that boring lvling 1-58 vanilla does not attract anyone and it is difficult to dispute this looking at the online numbers. If people are interested in azeroth they will go to any vanilla server. What you are describing attracts a very small percentage of people. In my understanding, burning crusade = everything related to outland

[Dalzedur]

23 minutes ago, Keann said:

I meant that boring lvling 1-58 vanilla does not attract anyone and it is difficult to dispute this looking at the online numbers. If people are interested in azeroth they will go to any vanilla server. What you are describing attracts a very small percentage of people. In my understanding, burning crusade = everything related to outland

Burning crusade is also draenei/shaman for alliance and belf/paladin for horde, the most fun I've had with tbc was leveling the belf pally for the first time. Including the talent tree changes and new abilities, not all of which were post lvl 60.

Not having the late game vanilla dungeon/instance content is absolutely hurting the numbers, because they add the additional hurdle for new players to overcome if they want to stay, firstly through the actual in-game effects their absence causes, and secondly through having doubts over what other features are not working as per normal. Most of the players only learn of the dungeon content missing after they've started playing and quit. On the other hand, if they knew of it before making a character, they would just look for alternatives instead.

The main attractions going for the server are 'standard rates', 'no addons', 'pvp', and 'not seasonal', I believe. It might be valuable to identify the things that are keeping people from coming over and/or staying, and address those if possible.

[BananaRama]

.

Edited September 29 by BananaRama

[Flemyst]

11 hours ago, Dalzedur said:

The main attractions going for the server are 'standard rates', 'no addons', 'pvp', and 'not seasonal

I disagree with No Addons being a plus. I think it may have been enjoyable in the early levels, but zero addons at 70 makes everything more time consuming for no reward. I do not feel superior because I use a bookmarked spreadsheet instead of atlas loot. 

 

The main attractions for this server going back 8 years has always been quality of scripting, everything else has only limited it's success. 

[Dalzedur]

On 9/26/2024 at 0:21 AM, Flemyst said:

I disagree with No Addons being a plus. I think it may have been enjoyable in the early levels, but zero addons at 70 makes everything more time consuming for no reward. I do not feel superior because I use a bookmarked spreadsheet instead of atlas loot. 

No Addons is a give and take in terms of numbers alone, while it probably does repel more people than it draws long-term, it does affect the quality/qualitative characteristics of those numbers that it does draw, which in turn may indirectly contribute towards better player retention. It is an attraction in the sense that it stands out and draws curious looks and hopefully people give it a try, because they haven't tried playing without addons that much (even if that is the default way to play). Some may possibly regard it as some kind of a challenge mode, maybe? Anyway, out of the people who have an interest in 'no addon', it should attract many as there aren't really other 'no addon' servers around.

From earlier conversations, I believe that the assumed effect of 'no addons' is that it results in a less toxic/sweaty/competitive server overall, since you don't have the addons telling you who sucks and how much, or who has the longest e-pen0r among the dps... thus the kind of people who do care about it a lot, and who may have a distinct mentality about them aren't really playing here, but it is also very much possible that the community being less toxic than some other community may also be a characteristic of it being a low pop server, where personal conduct and thus player reputation matters - people are less likely to pull stupid stunts, because you aren't faceless/anonymous on a low pop server, there are no massive nameless/faceless crowds or many guilds that you can hide in.

I haven't seen or, well, even went looking for what kind of ads are marketing the server. Wondering if mentioning the current raid progress is included in those ads, it might dispel some doubts if people learn that Kara has been fully cleared(?), since there was some chatter early on that raiding (or some raids specifically) would be impossible without addons.

[Crusader9x]

So this thread seems to be about why people are choosing not to play here.  I tried to honestly give some feedback as to why I stopped playing here, twice my post was removed.  I was honestly not trying to complain or say negative things about the server.  Im sorry you feel differently.  If you honestly are concerned about the servers future, then I would think it would be beneficial to hear why people who have stopped playing made that decision.  

I wish yahll nothing but the best.  

[Fanadin]

27 minutes ago, Crusader9x said:

So this thread seems to be about why people are choosing not to play here.  I tried to honestly give some feedback as to why I stopped playing here, twice my post was removed.  I was honestly not trying to complain or say negative things about the server.  Im sorry you feel differently.  If you honestly are concerned about the servers future, then I would think it would be beneficial to hear why people who have stopped playing made that decision.  

I wish yahll nothing but the best.  

I understand your reasoning for not playing here is because level 60 dungeons aren't open, it's not something that can easily be fixed/implemented.

Am I concerned about the server's future? Of course, who wouldn't be concerned about their server, for any game? But I think it's doing pretty well given the circumstances. People quit for a lot of reasons, but they also play for a lot of reasons. 

 

[Havok]

We need scholomance so we can get some dark runes. stratholme undead would be good to make alliance farm the mount! also we need this instances open so we can get our hands on some low level items for DE to get Large Brilliant Shard so enchanters can craft Brilliant Wizard Oil which is bis for me as a warlock.

Edited September 27 by Havok

[Gummy]

Felmsyt 2 had only 2k peaks which was considered Medium/Low at the time. Today that's twice as many players as the most popular TBC realm available. Every new TBC realm to open this year dwindled quickly. Also, very few Americans play on any realm anymore.

Times change.

[Flemyst]

Felmyst 2 was interesting in the way population developed over time. Towards the ends it seemed like a slow but steady stream of new players that were joining to have fun. 

[wrdlbrmpft]

Dear team,

today you handed out a warning to me for pointing out reasons why I think the servers policy is not attracting a lot of new players, which is not "Complaining about Skullcrusher (its policies, moderation, etc) on may result in a warning."

Imo playing addonless is unattractive for a broad player base (even though I partially agree that addons should be banned), which again is not a complaint, but a statement. Further, for new players, class mechanics based on 2.0 is also kind of a black box, wich 2.4.3 you know what you're getting, the theorycrafting is all there. 2.0 itemization and mechanics were big hype before Classic, but mostly comletely dwindled down after it. Again, not a complaint, but a statement of facts.

Again, this is not a complaint, but the foundation of feedback, how I think you can improve player quantities. Imo you should embrace it, if you want your server to grow beyond single digit numbers in account creations. Gummy has a good reputation for his magnificent work in the TBC private server community. I am not writing these lines (and have not been writing the deleted lines) because I was against a servers growth. Personally, I can live your ruleset and the mechanics, understanding the thought behind it, but as stated above, I doubt it will attract a lot of new players.

Kind Regards,

a TBC enthusiast

 

[Cephas]

On 9/24/2024 at 7:09 AM, Fanadin said:

Thousands of dollars have been spent on advertising. We still invest money into advertising as well. 

Also, anyone can promote our server, whether they invest any money or not, through multiple means, such as Google ads, Youtube, Reddit, etc. 

If someone has a relationship with him, by all means, he is welcome just like anyone else. 

Ya'll could give me some of that money so I could stream more. I've already recruited some players here. Just a friendly suggestion.