Short term plan: Itemization improvements

[Fanadin]

Greetings,

I hope to, in the near future, overhaul some items that just aren't very useful, these include level ~70 epic items, maybe some others, I'm not sure yet.

What I am NOT saying: Every item that you previously sold to a vendor will all of a sudden become best-in-slot, there will still be some items that are deemed "Not viable". 

The goal here is to simply add more options, side-grades, etc which ultimately result in better game-balance and gameplay. A lot of the items that will be changed are items that Blizzard also improved in some of their later patches. 

Feel free to ask questions. 

[Temedun]

Like adding the 2.1 stats to the Karazhan trinkets for example? Romulo's Poison Vial, Pendant of the Violet Eye etc. I think that would be a great change, they are cool items that end up pretty much unusable in 2.0 itemization. In the same vein I would also suggest adjusting some of the tier sets to their 2.1 equivalents - with reduced stats if you want to keep the 2.0 statline - as it is right now the tier sets (both t4 and t5) for some specs like Enhancement and Retribution are really very bad since they have loads of spellpower and mp5 on them instead of actual melee stats. Which is unfortunate because they look very stylish and have neat set bonuses. 

[Fanadin]

1 hour ago, Temedun said:

Like adding the 2.1 stats to the Karazhan trinkets for example? Romulo's Poison Vial, Pendant of the Violet Eye etc. I think that would be a great change, they are cool items that end up pretty much unusable in 2.0 itemization. In the same vein I would also suggest adjusting some of the tier sets to their 2.1 equivalents - with reduced stats if you want to keep the 2.0 statline - as it is right now the tier sets (both t4 and t5) for some specs like Enhancement and Retribution are really very bad since they have loads of spellpower and mp5 on them instead of actual melee stats. Which is unfortunate because they look very stylish and have neat set bonuses. 

It will likely be a long process as there are many items to consider. I also don't agree with all 2.1 values as it just made characters significantly more powerful through items while simultaneously making other changes to make content much easier. 

This server will remain challenging, but that doesn't mean I'm unreasonable. I will look into the items you suggested as well. 

[HadELisK]

My 2 cents are: If you want to apply 2.1. itemizations to any item, then do that to all items. I don't see a point of doing it to some and not to others. If going to 2.1. in general is something you don't want to do then at least do some changes to some pre 2.1. meh items but here you really need to be careful of what items you hit. If you wanna do some custom overhauls (outside of what 2.1. did to itemization) then yeah I'd be up to make a list of items that might be cool to change a bit. Besides that question is, do you ever want to move to Zul'Aman patch/release before all the t5 and t6 content that is up is cleared?

[Fanadin]

11 hours ago, HadELisK said:

My 2 cents are: If you want to apply 2.1. itemizations to any item, then do that to all items. I don't see a point of doing it to some and not to others. If going to 2.1. in general is something you don't want to do then at least do some changes to some pre 2.1. meh items but here you really need to be careful of what items you hit. If you wanna do some custom overhauls (outside of what 2.1. did to itemization) then yeah I'd be up to make a list of items that might be cool to change a bit. Besides that question is, do you ever want to move to Zul'Aman patch/release before all the t5 and t6 content that is up is cleared?

Custom, I suppose would be the correct term regarding item changes. 

[HadELisK]

Then I guess you could do the overhaul of most items if there is enough time requirement. At least 2.1. can be a base point from where to start with most items, and then just make them a bit weaker (or up to your likings). There is lots of items that could get some love.

[Fanadin]

Greetings,

The first wave of item overhauls is complete. These included some of the level 70 epic items. 

More will likely come - Merry Christmas. 

[HadELisK]

2 hours ago, Fanadin said:

Greetings,

The first wave of item overhauls is complete. These included some of the level 70 epic items. 

More will likely come - Merry Christmas. 

Ty for that.

Could we get the list of items that took overhaul or we have to figure ourselves?

Sadly it's kind of hard to figure ourselves if it's custom overhauls as we don't have reliable pre 2.1. items database anymore so it would all be just speculation.

Merry Christmas

Edited December 20, 2024 by HadELisK

[Fanadin]

4 hours ago, HadELisK said:

Ty for that.

Could we get the list of items that took overhaul or we have to figure ourselves?

Sadly it's kind of hard to figure ourselves if it's custom overhauls as we don't have reliable pre 2.1. items database anymore so it would all be just speculation.

Merry Christmas

Figuring it out is part of the entertainment 

[Fanadin]

The second part of this is now complete, there may be a few more items that may change and/or items that have already been changed once may also receive additional small changes, again these were level 70 epic items, primarily bind on equipping. 

[Temedun]

Seen some changes to the melee tier sets for shamans and paladins, I like the approach of keeping the 'jank' utility stats while simultaneously buffing the melee stats to make the pieces more competitive. Great stuff thumbs up

[Fanadin]

We are continuing to revamp additional items, with a primary focus on lower-level epic items and select rare-quality items. Our goal is to enhance the viability of these exceptionally rare pieces, as many currently do not meet competitive standards. 

This process is expected to continue over the coming weeks, and we welcome any suggestions you may have.

[Nodiscord]

One suggestion I have is to give a sneak peek to any changes you're making; for example, let's say you update 10 items, you could choose 1 or 2 of them to reveal publicly as an example of what to expect, while still keeping most of the changes under wraps it would also serve as a clear announcement that there's changes to look out for

Speaking of actual items, I've been somewhat disappointed by caster druid T5 shoulders, they seem to have less stats than T4 by an order of magnitude at least

[Fanadin]

5 hours ago, Nodiscord said:

One suggestion I have is to give a sneak peek to any changes you're making; for example, let's say you update 10 items, you could choose 1 or 2 of them to reveal publicly as an example of what to expect, while still keeping most of the changes under wraps it would also serve as a clear announcement that there's changes to look out for

Speaking of actual items, I've been somewhat disappointed by caster druid T5 shoulders, they seem to have less stats than T4 by an order of magnitude at least

You bring up a great point, and I appreciate the suggestion. I’ll work on providing a preview of select changes moving forward, as it can help set expectations while keeping the majority of updates a surprise.

Regarding item balance, I’ll make sure to address the issue with the caster druid T5 shoulders. Thank you for bringing it to my attention.

For an example of a recent adjustment, you can take a look at the Helm of Narv.

[Muhammad]

Posting here to respond to a thread I made here 

I think the items that were buffed were way over tuned. Look at the example of Runic Hammer normally its suppose to be a 105ilvl with a 83.54 dps https://www.wowhead.com/tbc/item=23544/runic-hammer. Which makes sense as its a relatively easy item to craft. Can be someones first epic weapon after hitting 70. On Felmyst its basically your BiS for the whole game equivalent to a T6 item from Black Temple or Mt Hyjal. I Added some links to some screen shots I took to show what im talking about. I don't see how this makes any sense or is balanced.
https://ibb.co/x8tyHWxh
https://ibb.co/93HBhpWh

To my second point I know we will never have Arena pvp but find a way for players to obtain the gladiator items by some other means. During TBC these items were very accessible and available to the entire player base after a period of time. Some ideas off the top of my head would be to add a currency to bosses to buy the items from a vendor or just give all lvl 70 players a weekly allowance of some arena points to buy them eventually.

[Fanadin]

The server was announced with 2.0 itemization, and we made adjustments to enhance certain rare items based on the current raid progression. Our goal was to improve the viability of otherwise underutilized gear. Should crafted items like the Runic Hammer be strictly inferior to Karazhan weapons, rendering them obsolete? Additionally, considering the weapon's speed and other variables, its overall strength may not be as significant as perceived. 

We expected players to appreciate efforts to make previously ineffective items more viable.

[Muhammad]

35 minutes ago, Fanadin said:

Should crafted items like the Runic Hammer be strictly inferior to Karazhan weapons, rendering them obsolete?

Yes. An item from a 10 man raid should be more powerful than an item from a 5 man dungeon. Blizzard had put powerful crafted items in the game. such as https://ibb.co/5gGCnwVG
 

Edited Sunday at 11:12 PM by Muhammad
more contex

[Fanadin]

17 hours ago, Muhammad said:

Yes. An item from a 10 man raid should be more powerful than an item from a 5 man dungeon. Blizzard had put powerful crafted items in the game. such as https://ibb.co/5gGCnwVG
 

You’re entitled to your opinion, but the item in question (Runic Hammer) is an epic recipe that can drop from multiple locations, whereas Dragonstrike is learned directly from a trainer.

I also disagree with the idea that items from a 10-man raid should always be better than those from a 5-man dungeon. Item strength varies for balance reasons—some raid items are indeed more powerful, while others are weaker to maintain diversity and progression. Blizzard has historically balanced loot across different content types, ensuring that some dungeon and crafted items remain competitive in certain situations.

 

[Muhammad]

On 10/03/2025 at 1:34 PM, Fanadin said:

You’re entitled to your opinion, but the item in question (Runic Hammer) is an epic recipe that can drop from multiple locations, whereas Dragonstrike is learned directly from a trainer.

Dragonstrike also requires that the player be a lvl 375 blacksmith which is a very difficult task to achieve. Runic Hammer on the other hand is a BoE item that can be gifted to anyone for free. Ironically if you just put the values from wowhead (83 dps) it would be as powerful as a ilvl 120 item on our server equivalent to Kazzak or doomwalker. I think this would be more reasonable. Personally I would like to see them revered back to its ilvl 105 (81.2 dps) value. 100 dps is ilvl 141 from 2.1 which is just ludicrous.

 

Edited Wednesday at 12:44 AM by Muhammad
number fix

[Fanadin]

30 minutes ago, Muhammad said:

Dragonstrike also requires that the player be a lvl 375 blacksmith which is a very difficult task to achieve. Runic Hammer on the other hand is a BoE item that can be gifted to anyone for free. Ironically if you just put the values from wowhead (83 dps) it would be as powerful as a ilvl 120 item on our server equivalent to Kazzak or doomwalker. I think this would be more reasonable. Personally I would like to see them revered back to its ilvl 105 (78 dps) value. 100 dps is ilvl 141 from 2.1 which is just ludicrous.

 

I do not intend to significantly nerf an item that players have already acquired. It is also important to consider that Tier 3 blacksmithing weapons, such as Dragonstrike, were obtained several months ago and thus were not particularly difficult to craft.

Additionally, raw weapon DPS is not the sole factor in determining an item's overall effectiveness. Other attributes contribute to a weapon's performance and should be considered in any discussion regarding balance.

Moreover, the overall population of melee DPS players is relatively low. This raises an important question: why is that the case? Addressing this issue was one of the primary reasons behind the substantial buffs to certain items.

Lastly, if this item is perceived as overpowered, shouldn't you, as a Rogue, be pleased with its availability and impact on gameplay? 

[Muhammad]

Well I want to use Spiteblade but you made it suck compared to the artificially buffed items put in the game. Melee players should be running around with glorious items like Gorehowl, Spiteblade and The Decapitator. Instead of Runic Hammer, Khorium Champion and Fel Hardened Maul 🤮